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	<title>Comments on: OXCGN Asks Why Is L4D2 &#8211; Left For Dead By Fans?</title>
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	<link>http://oxcgn.com/2009/06/12/oxcgn-asks-why-is-l4d2-left-for-dead-by-fans/</link>
	<description>Breathing Life Into Gaming</description>
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		<title>By: lorrie</title>
		<link>http://oxcgn.com/2009/06/12/oxcgn-asks-why-is-l4d2-left-for-dead-by-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-16261</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[lorrie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 01:32:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oxcgn.com/?p=16712#comment-16261</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What, when the game is unpolished?
So that when the game comes out you know it inside and out?
So that you cant really be excited about playing the game in its final state anymore because you have played it WAY too much already??

Sounds AWSOME! :\]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What, when the game is unpolished?<br />
So that when the game comes out you know it inside and out?<br />
So that you cant really be excited about playing the game in its final state anymore because you have played it WAY too much already??</p>
<p>Sounds AWSOME! :\</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: name</title>
		<link>http://oxcgn.com/2009/06/12/oxcgn-asks-why-is-l4d2-left-for-dead-by-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-16240</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[name]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:37:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oxcgn.com/?p=16712#comment-16240</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[you dont need a long time in development to produce a good polished game.
infamous proves that.
GTAIV was in development for ages and developed by one of the most talanted devs R* and infamous in 2 years has come up against that and has less pop in.
thats a big thing for a open world game like infamous or GTA, shure the graphics arent as good but if sucker punch can do what they have done in 2 years why cant a much larger team?
as far as i know and im 99% confident that R* would have hundreds more staff than sucker punch has there only a small team.
also look at resistance fall of man sony gave them less than 1 year ted price himself said that and look at that game.
it is so much fun with a MP to boot and no bugs ive found, if insomniac can do it, if naughty dog can do it (uncharted) if sucker punch can do it what is EA&#039;s and R*&#039;s and all the other 3rd part devs excuses?
there much larger teams so shouldent they be able to get the same amount of work done in the same time.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>you dont need a long time in development to produce a good polished game.<br />
infamous proves that.<br />
GTAIV was in development for ages and developed by one of the most talanted devs R* and infamous in 2 years has come up against that and has less pop in.<br />
thats a big thing for a open world game like infamous or GTA, shure the graphics arent as good but if sucker punch can do what they have done in 2 years why cant a much larger team?<br />
as far as i know and im 99% confident that R* would have hundreds more staff than sucker punch has there only a small team.<br />
also look at resistance fall of man sony gave them less than 1 year ted price himself said that and look at that game.<br />
it is so much fun with a MP to boot and no bugs ive found, if insomniac can do it, if naughty dog can do it (uncharted) if sucker punch can do it what is EA&#8217;s and R*&#8217;s and all the other 3rd part devs excuses?<br />
there much larger teams so shouldent they be able to get the same amount of work done in the same time.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: name</title>
		<link>http://oxcgn.com/2009/06/12/oxcgn-asks-why-is-l4d2-left-for-dead-by-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-16239</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[name]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:30:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oxcgn.com/?p=16712#comment-16239</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[i would love to be.
in fact thats what im studying now for to become a dev.
come on you cant seriously say you wouldent want to be working on halo reach wright now, get to play the game year before its out.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i would love to be.<br />
in fact thats what im studying now for to become a dev.<br />
come on you cant seriously say you wouldent want to be working on halo reach wright now, get to play the game year before its out.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: name</title>
		<link>http://oxcgn.com/2009/06/12/oxcgn-asks-why-is-l4d2-left-for-dead-by-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-16238</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[name]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:26:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oxcgn.com/?p=16712#comment-16238</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[true.
but what im saying is if they put some work into there games and make shure there polished to the extent of perfection than may be they would sell better.
why did gears of war 2 sell so well?
1 because its a follow up to one of the most highly praised new IPs.
and 2 its quality to put it blankly gears 2 is THE BEST FPS ive played, so polished so much fun.
getting eaten buy a giant worm and slicing its arterys to kill it classic.
if EA adopted a epic or naughty dog aproach and took pride in there work may be they would be able to lower there losses.
hopefully dantes inferno will take that approach because it has the potentional to be a contender to god of war 3 IF done properly.
and seccondly name 1 big company thats not made a huge loss this year.
were in a recession of course companys are bleeding money ATM.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>true.<br />
but what im saying is if they put some work into there games and make shure there polished to the extent of perfection than may be they would sell better.<br />
why did gears of war 2 sell so well?<br />
1 because its a follow up to one of the most highly praised new IPs.<br />
and 2 its quality to put it blankly gears 2 is THE BEST FPS ive played, so polished so much fun.<br />
getting eaten buy a giant worm and slicing its arterys to kill it classic.<br />
if EA adopted a epic or naughty dog aproach and took pride in there work may be they would be able to lower there losses.<br />
hopefully dantes inferno will take that approach because it has the potentional to be a contender to god of war 3 IF done properly.<br />
and seccondly name 1 big company thats not made a huge loss this year.<br />
were in a recession of course companys are bleeding money ATM.</p>
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		<title>By: xboxoz360</title>
		<link>http://oxcgn.com/2009/06/12/oxcgn-asks-why-is-l4d2-left-for-dead-by-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-16185</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[xboxoz360]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 02:06:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oxcgn.com/?p=16712#comment-16185</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Of course you are, but you also have to understand we too have had a solid hands-on time with the game, discussed the issues with Valve in an in-depth interview and feel many gamers are simply over reacting. You could say many earlier games or follow-ups of games were simple &quot;expansion packs. But they added new content, ne weapons, a different storyline, which is what Left 4 Dead 2 does as well.

Thing is, no one was jumping up and down then, as there were fewer games to chose from then, and we waited for any new game to come along.

These days gamers are basically spolit for choice, so much so that they have become exceptionally picky and demanding of developers. 

I certainly would not want to be a developers in todays market, that&#039;s for sure.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course you are, but you also have to understand we too have had a solid hands-on time with the game, discussed the issues with Valve in an in-depth interview and feel many gamers are simply over reacting. You could say many earlier games or follow-ups of games were simple &#8220;expansion packs. But they added new content, ne weapons, a different storyline, which is what Left 4 Dead 2 does as well.</p>
<p>Thing is, no one was jumping up and down then, as there were fewer games to chose from then, and we waited for any new game to come along.</p>
<p>These days gamers are basically spolit for choice, so much so that they have become exceptionally picky and demanding of developers. </p>
<p>I certainly would not want to be a developers in todays market, that&#8217;s for sure.</p>
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		<title>By: lorrie</title>
		<link>http://oxcgn.com/2009/06/12/oxcgn-asks-why-is-l4d2-left-for-dead-by-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-16183</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[lorrie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 01:33:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oxcgn.com/?p=16712#comment-16183</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Haha, Listen to the new Listen up over at 1up. 
&quot;It doesnt feel like a new game it feels like an expansion pack&quot;

Must say that I would trust their oppinions over yours.
And what the hell, someone on your site is allowed to have an opinion with out you guys jumping all over them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Haha, Listen to the new Listen up over at 1up.<br />
&#8220;It doesnt feel like a new game it feels like an expansion pack&#8221;</p>
<p>Must say that I would trust their oppinions over yours.<br />
And what the hell, someone on your site is allowed to have an opinion with out you guys jumping all over them.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: xboxoz360</title>
		<link>http://oxcgn.com/2009/06/12/oxcgn-asks-why-is-l4d2-left-for-dead-by-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-16152</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[xboxoz360]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jun 2009 14:16:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oxcgn.com/?p=16712#comment-16152</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ahh yes, YOU might, but if you were being funded by SHAREHOLDER, which ALL publishers, and Developers are, you&#039;d be signing a totally different tune mate, trust me - you would. 

Shareholders you say, WTF do they have to do with it. Well, without them EA, Ubisoft, Naughty Dog etc would not have the future funding to invest in games like Mirrors Edge, Dark Space etc as new IP&#039;s, let alone the follow-up iterations that help keep the money flowing to keep the shareholders happy and thus re-investing in the companies. EA lost $US1 billion last financial year (google it) . . now do the math on that and ask yourself, if you had shares in that company, would you keep those shares there, or move . . . 

Take away that return for the investors, and they move on to greener fields. The publisher goes belly up, you lose the games you want to play.

Basic mathematics at play mate. In an &quot;ideal world&quot; they&#039;d love to spend more time, deliver a finely polished product that could well take 5 yrs or more to develop. But it&#039;s not a perfect world, consumers consume 10 times more now than they did even as little as 3 yrs ago, and it is only getting worse, not better. Hence the length of games getting shorter to match that turnover. Again, back down to basic math.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ahh yes, YOU might, but if you were being funded by SHAREHOLDER, which ALL publishers, and Developers are, you&#8217;d be signing a totally different tune mate, trust me &#8211; you would. </p>
<p>Shareholders you say, WTF do they have to do with it. Well, without them EA, Ubisoft, Naughty Dog etc would not have the future funding to invest in games like Mirrors Edge, Dark Space etc as new IP&#8217;s, let alone the follow-up iterations that help keep the money flowing to keep the shareholders happy and thus re-investing in the companies. EA lost $US1 billion last financial year (google it) . . now do the math on that and ask yourself, if you had shares in that company, would you keep those shares there, or move . . . </p>
<p>Take away that return for the investors, and they move on to greener fields. The publisher goes belly up, you lose the games you want to play.</p>
<p>Basic mathematics at play mate. In an &#8220;ideal world&#8221; they&#8217;d love to spend more time, deliver a finely polished product that could well take 5 yrs or more to develop. But it&#8217;s not a perfect world, consumers consume 10 times more now than they did even as little as 3 yrs ago, and it is only getting worse, not better. Hence the length of games getting shorter to match that turnover. Again, back down to basic math.</p>
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		<title>By: xboxoz360</title>
		<link>http://oxcgn.com/2009/06/12/oxcgn-asks-why-is-l4d2-left-for-dead-by-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-16150</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[xboxoz360]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jun 2009 14:08:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oxcgn.com/?p=16712#comment-16150</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well actually, they HAVE gone up, but by less that the normal CPI . .(Consumer price index) but overall, they are still teh same . .

Games only 8 yrs ago were $100 or more and you could NOT bargain your way down from that. That was the RRP, and that was that.

Now, while we have a RRP, barely any store actually follows that RRP as their actual sale price, unless of course a customer simply walks in, grabs the game and pays for it like a nilly.

Games have remained universally stable over the last 10 or more years with nothing more that a $10 rise or fall on each end. BUt now, we can walk into say JB Hi-Fi and walk out with a normal $99.95 game for $79.95 or less, or trade in 2 games and $10 and get the latest game, or trade in 3 games and get the game &quot;free&quot; . . 

None of this was available even 5 yrs ago. Sure - you had secondhand games, but NOT to the scale they are b=now, and definitely not exploited like they are now by the gamer. Do some research on games for the earlier consoles, the cost of the consoles etc and you&#039;ll be staggered at the prices they were asking for them at that time. And at a time the Aust $ had more power than it does now, making them even more expensive when compared to other store items of the time.

The first Playstation 2 sold for over $700 and even more at high-end stores. The difference now is, numbers - pure and simple - numbers exceed the levels they did even 3 yrs ago. Thus it has a smaller window of purchasing periods between games, and thus gamers want more games, and thus spend more on said games. 

Its sort of a false over-spending as it were. Earlier on, one game would get released per console every few weeks or so, not like now where you have possibly 10-20 games on a bad month being released for the huge number of consoles available. ALmost 1 game every 1.4 days. That&#039;s almost insane.

So yes, you DO end up spending MORE, but on more games, an dthat way it feels more intrusive than it did before. It was easier for me to buy and keep a huge number of 1st-gen xbox games, without too much hassle or financial burden at the time. Now, I&#039;m lucky if I can buy many games at ll due to the high number being released. Yet the prices for the games has only risen $10 across the board, and has been around that figure (and more in earlier years) for over a decade.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well actually, they HAVE gone up, but by less that the normal CPI . .(Consumer price index) but overall, they are still teh same . .</p>
<p>Games only 8 yrs ago were $100 or more and you could NOT bargain your way down from that. That was the RRP, and that was that.</p>
<p>Now, while we have a RRP, barely any store actually follows that RRP as their actual sale price, unless of course a customer simply walks in, grabs the game and pays for it like a nilly.</p>
<p>Games have remained universally stable over the last 10 or more years with nothing more that a $10 rise or fall on each end. BUt now, we can walk into say JB Hi-Fi and walk out with a normal $99.95 game for $79.95 or less, or trade in 2 games and $10 and get the latest game, or trade in 3 games and get the game &#8220;free&#8221; . . </p>
<p>None of this was available even 5 yrs ago. Sure &#8211; you had secondhand games, but NOT to the scale they are b=now, and definitely not exploited like they are now by the gamer. Do some research on games for the earlier consoles, the cost of the consoles etc and you&#8217;ll be staggered at the prices they were asking for them at that time. And at a time the Aust $ had more power than it does now, making them even more expensive when compared to other store items of the time.</p>
<p>The first Playstation 2 sold for over $700 and even more at high-end stores. The difference now is, numbers &#8211; pure and simple &#8211; numbers exceed the levels they did even 3 yrs ago. Thus it has a smaller window of purchasing periods between games, and thus gamers want more games, and thus spend more on said games. </p>
<p>Its sort of a false over-spending as it were. Earlier on, one game would get released per console every few weeks or so, not like now where you have possibly 10-20 games on a bad month being released for the huge number of consoles available. ALmost 1 game every 1.4 days. That&#8217;s almost insane.</p>
<p>So yes, you DO end up spending MORE, but on more games, an dthat way it feels more intrusive than it did before. It was easier for me to buy and keep a huge number of 1st-gen xbox games, without too much hassle or financial burden at the time. Now, I&#8217;m lucky if I can buy many games at ll due to the high number being released. Yet the prices for the games has only risen $10 across the board, and has been around that figure (and more in earlier years) for over a decade.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: name</title>
		<link>http://oxcgn.com/2009/06/12/oxcgn-asks-why-is-l4d2-left-for-dead-by-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-16148</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[name]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jun 2009 12:48:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oxcgn.com/?p=16712#comment-16148</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[the price of games have gone up also.
most games on ps2 were 89-99 now ps3 games are 109-119.
not to mention the collectors editions wich are normaly 130 up to 180 like the MGS4 one.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the price of games have gone up also.<br />
most games on ps2 were 89-99 now ps3 games are 109-119.<br />
not to mention the collectors editions wich are normaly 130 up to 180 like the MGS4 one.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: name</title>
		<link>http://oxcgn.com/2009/06/12/oxcgn-asks-why-is-l4d2-left-for-dead-by-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-16147</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[name]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jun 2009 12:46:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oxcgn.com/?p=16712#comment-16147</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[lmao and you know why EA are loosing so much money?
look at all the games they have released in the last 2 years, only 2 were good games and even worse only 2 worked properly.
merceneries 2 riddled with bugs godfather 2 same thing army of two same thing.
the only 2 good games EA has come out with are deadspace and mirrors edge.
EA, all devs need to stop being stingy sit down and focus and make the best game they can, make it for pc 360 and ps3 have 3 different teams working on each so they can optimise the code for the hardware.
yea it would cost them alot of money but it would rake in the sales, look at crysis 90% of people dident buy that game because there comp couldent play it imagine if a game like that came out on all platforms it would fly off the shelf.
as ive allways said quality over quantity, i would rather make a small profit on a game and go down as one of the best devs ever than make a huge profit and it be meh.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>lmao and you know why EA are loosing so much money?<br />
look at all the games they have released in the last 2 years, only 2 were good games and even worse only 2 worked properly.<br />
merceneries 2 riddled with bugs godfather 2 same thing army of two same thing.<br />
the only 2 good games EA has come out with are deadspace and mirrors edge.<br />
EA, all devs need to stop being stingy sit down and focus and make the best game they can, make it for pc 360 and ps3 have 3 different teams working on each so they can optimise the code for the hardware.<br />
yea it would cost them alot of money but it would rake in the sales, look at crysis 90% of people dident buy that game because there comp couldent play it imagine if a game like that came out on all platforms it would fly off the shelf.<br />
as ive allways said quality over quantity, i would rather make a small profit on a game and go down as one of the best devs ever than make a huge profit and it be meh.</p>
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